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RBshorty
3:09 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Whoever buys us out. Will be looking to push us on the global market.
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southbankbornnbred
2:55 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Last thing I'll say about this: I think there's a potentially big selling point in West Ham re-establishing its rep as the club that gives top-class UK and Irish talent their full backing.
Go to Man Utd, Arsenal etc and there is a good chance your u-18 place is going to go to a kid from Portugal, Spain or Brazil.
I have no problem with that, so it's not a xenophobic issue. But it sends all the wrong messages to young footballers in the UK, and creates an opportunity for a club like West Ham (15th biggest in the world) to invest in local talent. And there is still a lot of it.
It's probably also a cheaper approach.
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southbankbornnbred
2:50 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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As I've said elsewhere, for a club that is currently (according to Deloitte) the 15th biggest in THE WORLD by revenue, there is almost nothing about our club that looks or feels like an elite level, top-15 club.
Including our Steptoe and Son youth set up. Many clubs have soared past us since we had such a good recruitment regime in the 1990s.
For my sins, I go past Chelsea's academy and training ground regularly on my way to see the in-laws. They're an extreme example, of course, but their set-up/facilities etc are incredible. They throw millions at it, of course, but we need to get wise to some of that and at least start investing more in the fabric of our club.
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southbankbornnbred
2:45 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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I disagree, Surface.
I think that's precisely why we should be doing better. London/East London/Essex has traditionally always produced world-class footballers. Many, many of them. As good as most areas of most countries in the world.
Having a free run at that catchment area would usually be great. But we don't. Chelsea may have a global outlook on youth recruitment (more of that below), but they also throw big money at London's market etc. Likewise, after we dominated the area in the 1990s, other clubs like Arsenal and Spurs got wise to it.
London/East London/Essex is still chock full of talented kids - but we need to do more to dominate it and compete better within it.
On the global outlook, I think that's the one area where we should eschew paying millions and millions for 14 year-old French or Senegalese kids. Nothing against any country - but if our (East London) history stands for something, surely it should stand for giving "local" (bearing in mind it's a huge catchment area) kids a chance - and nurturing them properly.
There are still potential Rios, Coles, Carricks and Declan Rice's out there and under our noses. We don't need to go spending Chelsea-style gabillions hunting down teenage Japanese kids in Ozaka. We can always sign up and coming, decent foreign talent when they get to 20 etc. I think the focus for our youth system should be the UK and Ireland.
But we have to get back to dominating it - and then focusing on that difficult step of "reserve to first team".
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:37 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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SBBB
East London/Essex isn't a huge catchment area any more, mate, it's tiny. Our rivals, particularly Chelsea, are looking at a global catchment area. Being the best young player in Barking means precisely nothing any more.
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onsideman
2:34 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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A proper forward thinking club with an imaginative manager would've put Scarles on with 12 mins to go at Derby, not fucking Cresswell. He didn't even take him
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southbankbornnbred
2:28 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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I should add...our 'failure' with the Academy is not the Academy staff and set up, per se.
Clearly, if the U-23etc are doing so well and rated the second best in the country etc, then something is going right at Academy level. These players are good kids with real promise.
The failure is our consistent inability to take promising kids over the biggest step of all - the one into high-level professional football.
That is where we are falling down badly, as many clubs do. But we shouldn't be 'like many clubs'. We've always had a decent academy/youth set up and we should be producing and nurturing more first teamers through it.
Our problem has been getting talented kids from the U-18 age group into Championship and Premier League levels. So we have to think harder about the pathways for that, what the obstacles are and how we overcome them.
Because in recent years, Chelsea (who have thrown enormous sums at it), Arsenal and even Tottenham have gone past us in terms of producing first-teamers. We used to dominate the huge London/Essex catchment area and now we compare with the likes of Palace and Fulham.
Something is going badly wrong, and it isn't simply the Academy/U-23 team performances (which, as with last season, were good).
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southbankbornnbred
1:05 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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West Ham: Ashby not good enough for a club with our resources.
Newcastle: Well, we've got more resources now, and a manager with some vision, and we'll definitely take him.
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southbankbornnbred
1:02 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Trunds - spot on. These kids were part of the second best side in 'youth' football last season.
Of course some of them are good enough to go on and be first teamers. But, as a club, we have no co-ordinated way of helping good youngsters make the most difficult step up into the top ranks: the leap from youth/reserve to first team football.
We chuck them into the first team, usually for a couple of low-grade games (League cup, dead-rubber Europa games etc) and see if they sink or swim. That's been the case for decades and it all just looks and feels amateurish. After a couple of games, 'oven-ready' managers like Moyes just discard them and go and sign a Czech international or something instead.
We need a proper, well-managed and resourced stiffs/loans system (dare I say a bit like Chelsea's), overseen by a good coach who's sole purpose is to help players make that awkward leap into first team football. It needs to be more professional and better planned than currently.
You still won't get every promising player making the grade. It's just a fact of life that most don't. But we've had very few in recent years - Rice is a massive, notable exception and you could argue that he would have made the grade anywhere. Chelsea made a huge error letting him leave.
But I refuse to believe that we properly managed the situations with Oxford, Powell, Ashby, Longelo, Alese and (currently) Baptiste.
We are failing on academy stuff, just like we are failing to look and feel like a top-15 global club with anything we do. Two bob. Night and fucking day.
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Jaan Kenbrovin
12:58 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Lee Trundle 12:39 Wed Feb 1
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southbankbornnbred
12:53 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Yet another example of the two-bob Steptoe and Son way West Ham - the 15th biggest club team in world football - is run.
No co-ordination, no ambition, no vision.
No hope.
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Lee Trundle
12:39 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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These players were in the 2nd best development side in the country last season.
At what point do we stop looking at the (lack of, in some peoples eyes) potential of these players, and the set up we have, and look at RED BULL Moyes instead?
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BRANDED
12:11 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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If they arent good enough for us we need to up the development set up. Cant be that difficult.
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On The Ball
11:58 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Huffers 3:18 Mon Jan 30
What's your experience of him been like?
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Iron Duke
11:58 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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I don’t know the full story of why he wanted to go, but it is very sad that Ashby, Longelo, Alese and Perkins all left without getting a proper chance. Ashby and Longelo especially looked very promising and would fit in to the wing back system. Maybe they wouldn’t have made the grade, maybe they still would want to leave like Ngakia did. But if you never give them the chance, you will never know.
If we are to compete with the best teams, we need to be able to recruit a successful group of young talent and have a conveyor belt of youth coming through the system. If we are going to attract the best players, we need to show them that the club will give them a chance. Otherwise, we can’t offer them anything better than the likes of Chelsea and Man City. If a young player doesn’t sign for clubs like those, they might as well join someone like Southampton where at least they will get an opportunity.
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Lee Trundle
11:49 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Mex Martillo 7:45 Wed Feb 1
Another one of the promising U23's that were only 2nd to Man City U23's last season leaving.
We'll probably bring Danny Rose in now.
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martyboy
11:43 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Judging by the moody tan, and fake railings, i would say best shot of the cocky prick!! Ashby that is!!
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Mex Martillo
7:45 Wed Feb 1
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Another
31 Jan
23:17 Emmanuel Longelo [West Ham - Birmingham] Undisclosed
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onsideman
8:43 Tue Jan 31
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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That thing going over your head is the point
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El Scorchio
8:37 Tue Jan 31
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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Ironic there’s so much wailing and gnashing of teeth surrounding youth players never getting a chance, and the one that does (Johnson) is coated off as being not good enough for us by several people whenever he plays
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onsideman
8:24 Tue Jan 31
Re: Harrison Ashby gone to Newcastle.
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I'll accept Tomkins, yes. Fair point
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